About Kari Killén: Second conversation with Mette Heap

Thursday letter 01/08/19 

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Kari Killén summer theme part 4
Second conversation with Mette Heap

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Transcript of the entire conversation

So hello this is the second episode of my conversation with Mette Heap who is the daughter of Kari Killén, and Kari Killén is the theoretical that I am exploring for this summer. I have a summer theme of Kari Killén and I have gone to the west coast of Jutland to visit Mette. We had a conversation last time about her and her mother and and life and considerations this time we are going to focus on.... Well I have one theme that I like to follow and that is that Kari Killén seems to be an artist in splitting. That was kind of my wording of this. I had that picture when I talked with Mette. I see the threat of a splitting strategy that by splitting she gets herself into a power position and maybe also this thing about seeing the vulnerability of this most deep connection between a child in a parent and the possibility of taking on power by using the weakness and softness in that position. The theories in these written books are facilitating a power overtake by splitting. That was my approach of this second interview, and I wanted to kind of see if I could follow or I had this idea that we have a young woman that comes into life and that she finds some strategies for the personal life that she would refine and refine. Eventually it will become a whole theoretical theme and she has done what she has done very successfully if you think of positioning herself with power... That was kind of the thread I wanted to follow. Mette I have here on the other side was also wanting to follow a trace of her professional life what she has seen of results of this way of thinking. We will see if we can navigate these stories if we can make out some pattern and also just go along with what we seem to discover. We could start with me that you could accept the term the master of splitting or turning splitting into an art form first when I said it you said to me "splitting will never be in art form" hahaha I said yeah.. If you refine something it is an art form and I guess we kind of agreed but you also had an emotional reaction to it you wouldn't accept that because you found it very negative you said to me something yesterday you'd been in a court case or Court situation with your mum



Mette:

no not with my mum but with her theories so she could have been there



Mikkel:

and you said that you knew what you could expect. You knew because you knew the way of thinking. You knew all the things that would be followed in this structure of damaging and making the person look as being wrong in certain concepts. I said yeah you know that from your professional background and you know that from your personal experience from your life because you have seen these strategies lived out throughout your childhood



Mette:

but without calling it an art form



Mikkel:

without calling it an art form talking about making splitting into a what? A strategy that is?



Mette:

it works... Because when you split people and they don't speak together and they don't communicate together. That gives power to the splitter.



Mikkel:

do you think you could make that work too if you went on that path?



Mette:

I would never walk that path, because I'm not that kind of person



Mikkel:

a lot of people... Say that because I've been through this you've been through a lot of things are very similar actually even though your kids were not taken by authorities but you've been through very similar things. I can say that it feels like that strategy that would be Kari Killéns strategy, is actually transferred into people that read this (clapping the book that he's sitting with). They really read that there are certain kinds of people with certain behavior, and if you are able to recognize that behaviour you should intervene and do stuff in their lives with their kids and you have the right to do that because you recognize that pattern. They become what should I say evil . We have some kind of an evil pattern where your compassion or your normal way of thinking your ways of solving problems ok your child has this and that problem. Let's see what we can do. Do you have some examples from your perspective you can mention?



Mette:

yeah I in 2013 a mother contacted me. She had just been diagnosed sclerosis and she was alone with two kids think 1/2 and 3 years old. She didn't have any family network because her parents were addicted to alcohol and drags. The father of the two girls was in and out of prison also because of drugs and there was no contact to hum. She contacted me to ask me to help her to have her working skills evaluated. And after short time I sort of catched that she had a much bigger problem than that.



Mikkel:

were you supposed to evaluate her?



Mette:

no no I was just supposed to represent her. she didn't get the rest she needed especially in weekends or holidays. She had daughters all the time, so she could rest in the middle of the day



Mikkel:

and she will need a little more rest than normal



Mette:

much more... So we contacted the City Council to ask practical help and help with the children... Never happened after 1 1/2 years nothing really had happened. The family consultant came out and criticized her and wrote a lot that was not correct



Mikkel:

you come around and you point the finger at things that are not good and that the person is perfectly aware of not being good and there is no real reason to point the finger at that



Mette:

no that's why she asked for help but she didn't get any help just criticism.



Mikkel:

yeah I tried that



Mette:

yeah and she got weaker and weaker of course because she didn't get her rest her sclerosis was developing and in this process she met a nice man who lived in a different Council. The previous City Council sent a report to the new City Council and then suddenly things went really fast. She went into hospital with an attack and the day after she got home they were supposed to go on a holiday place for five days with two family consultant who were sort of to observe her and that was when I for the first time really realized what it was to frustrate the parents un purpose she could hardly walk and her balance was totally out of order.



Mikkel:

it's upsetting



Mette:

and they wanted her to go to the swimming pool with her two daughters which she did. Only so they could describe that she didn't give the girls any notice and that she appeared to be obsessed with their own safety. But why? She tried to protest and said “I can't do this” and they said well this is an everyday thing



Mikkel:

yeah you should be able to do this.. But if she was able to do everything that every parents are able to do, she wouldn't be in this situation.



Mette:

so a big report comes out of these days where our protest to this report was about as many pages as the report itself, which says a lot about the lies and manipulations. A family consultant came to observe in their own home. One evening this mother called me and said they asked her to come for a meeting the next day. I couldn’t go as I had a meeting in the other side of the country. I asked her if she wanted me to move her meeting - no it's probably just a status thing I can do this myself. On my way home I had a crying mother in the phone. They had decided to forcefully remove both girls, to two different foster families.



Mikkel:

although for me and probably also for you it's just everyday stories. I talked to the people and I have a lot of contact and it's it's just this is normal. Still when you tell this in this moment and you listen to it, it touches you right? it's horrible it's horrible for this woman who has health problems, and they put stress on her on purpose and they end up taking her kids and they end up splitting them it's sad yeah.



Mette:

And she has a couple of hours with them every second week but not together. The foster families meet about once a month so the sisters can spend time together.



Mikkel:

They to make sure that they will not be able to make a connection and rebuild a family



Mette:

the two foster families meet once a month I think, where they are together for a couple of hours. Now it starts to become interesting because the mother wants them more and more home so one of them is coming home in August for 3 1/2 to 4 hours every third week. Beside of that they get to spend time together in a family house where they have been so far and I think ..well if you really want to confuse the child this is the way to do it where am I going to be with Mum next week?? am I going home or...?



Mikkel:

exactly everything that you didn't want you know you want to make a safe environment that they can predict and it's a stressful environment



Mette:

so they give them even more insecurity than they had before and the social worker told one of the foster parents that the mother needed to be more involved in her daughter's life ... Like coming to activities in kindergarten and coming to meetings in school in kindergarten and the foster mother said no there are no activities



Mikkel:

there are no activities? ... So the foster mum says that?



Mette:

yeah she said that there are no activities



Mette:

she loses money if this ends with her getting her back home to her biological mother.



Mikkel:

can I draw a line here to something that I've seen from my history in this? The idea here is that the social worker puts the blame on her... On the mom. And the advantage of that is that they don't have any responsibility because actually what a social worker should be doing is to come in then give some support so that the situation can walk out and what we see here is the way of distancing you... " well this is your problems I'm not going to deal with that you better fix it and I'm going to stress you while you trying to fix it,, so that we can see how that you are actually at it" and then again it takes the front back you know. I see this pattern of behaviour from Kari Killén this kind of way this theory allows for this. To make this person have so much trouble over here so they don't discover the trouble over here.



Mette:

it's also like paragraph 54 in law of social service you have the right to have a contact person if your child is forcefully removed. According to that paragraph the contact person has to work loyally to the authorities. What kind of help is that?



Mikkel:

yes exactly



Mette:

This mother wanted me as that contact person which I was for a while until I reach the point I said " I will help you but no way I want to get paid to shut up so I had it in my resignation. I said don't want this anymore but I'll be there for her I'm not going to accept any more crap



Mikkel:

which could have brought you into trouble you know there are lawsuits now against people who take up that role who has knowledge who has insight and who go against the commune



Mette:

will they can bring it on



Mikkel:

I realise when we sit and talk here that there was one of the subjects that I wanted to explore maybe actually already in the first interview but never mind that I have not touched upon all gone into and that is is woman Kari Killén seems to be lying a lot. Or what?



Mette:

well that could also be a kind of art


The last ten minutes not yet transcripted it will be ready in a few days.