About Kari Killén: First conversation with Mette Heap

Thursday letter 25/07/19 

Read previous Thursday letters on

mimeini.blogspot.com

Kari Killén summer theme part 3
First conversation with Mette Heap

Dansk oversættelse af hele samtalen

Transcript of the entire conversation

Mikkel:

Hello, I am Mikkel. I am sitting here next to Mette. She will introduce herself in a minute.

The reason why I am sitting here, is that I have had my children taken into custody forcefully by the authorities. I did not give my consent at any point. When I became ready to have my children back, the system was for some reason not ready for that to happen.

About a year ago, I became an activist in a very explicit and constructive way. It was never in an aggressive way. I tried to tell people, that we have a social system in Denmark that doesn’t work. I tried to create awareness about his by investigating the area.

I will also say here, that normally when we speak together we do that in Danish. However I have chosen for this interview to be in English. Partly because Mette is half English. But mostly because this subject is of international interest.

The Human Rights Court has taken up 26 cases. They already had 16 cases, and have taken up 10 more. All of these cases are from Norway and about children taken into foster care.

This is unheard of, this is a lot og families and children. CBN an American Broadcast Channel, has broadcasted a program about what is happening in Norway.

Norway and Denmark are very similar in the way they work in this area. I think a very central reason for this, is the way Kari Killéns theories have been implemented in the legal system. She is a scientist in the area of child welfare, or at least a woman who wrote a lot of books. These books you have to read, in order to become a social worker in Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

The special thing is that Kari Killéns theories have gone into the aw system. I used to say that the the law does not judge on behalf of the Danish law of Social Service. But the law judges on behalf of Killéns concept of bad parenting, I am not sure if she came up with the concept, but she is certainly advertising it.

In my investigation, I write a letter every Thursday, and I have been focusing on the subject of Kari Killén, which I chose to write about. The day after, I was contacted by a woman who had read this letter. That was you Mette, and I would like you to tell a little about the reason you contacted me.

Mette:

I contacted you because your way of analyzing her theories and methods spoke to me. I could se the same things when I am out working in the field.

Mikkel:

Working in the field of?

Mette:

Well, the social field

Mikkel:

You work as a?

Mette:

Legal advisor and consultant

Mikkel:

You are a lawyer?

Mette:

A lawyer not a barrister

Mikkel:

And you have had cases about children being forcefully removed?

Mette:

Well, for a year I was in a family department in west Jutland, where my job was to tidy up in these kinds of cases. There had been no legal work done at all.

Mikkel:

You have another reason to know something about Kari Killén. Will you tell me a little about that?

Mette;

She is my mother

Mikkel:

She is you mother?

Mette:

Yes

Mikkel:

Alright, you are not exactly pulling in the same direction it seems.

Mette:

No, I am pulling in the opposite direction. I am confused. I se children who should be removed, that are not removed. I se children who should not be taken away from their parents who are taken away from their parents. I experience that when the children start spending time with their parents a couple of hours about every second week, the family consultants are not supportive, and things are written that are not true.

Mikkel:

So they want to break down the attachment?

Mette:

That is my over all impression

Mikkel:

Why do you think they want that?

Mette:

I think it’s all about money. Also the foster parents talk about bad reactions after the children have spent time with their biological parents. This is also about money.

Mikkel:

So they want to keep the children?

Mette:

Yes. They get payed to have the children, so they have no interest in being a part of helping the children to come home to their biological family.

Mikkel:

So it’s about money?

Mette:

Yes

Mikkel:

Do you think that Kari Killéns theories are giving a way of supporting this non constructive way of remining the children in care? Do you understand what I mean?

Mette:

That is what I see. In one of her books she writes about frustrating the biological parents on purpose in order to see how they handle stress. As if it is not enough pressure to be observed and maybe loose your child.

Mikkel:

Laughing

Mette:

So we put just a little more evil into it on purpose, just to stress them and see how they react. That is evil.

Mikkel:

Mette… you s hould think that a woman who is able to tell all of Scandinavia what is appropriate or not appropriate in order to be a good parent, would herself be a good mother with a strong attachment to her children. Is that the case?

Mette:

Well, I don’t know. I was actually molested for years by a man from our street, as were many other children. Also I was molested by a family member.

Mikkel:

While you grew up?

Mette:

Yes while she was busy writing her famous books

Mikkel:

So big contrast here between what you want to sell yourself as or present and what is actually going on in her life

Mette:

Definitely

Mikkel:

Did you know anything about what you mum was doing at that time?

Mette:

Not really. Well I knew she was writing. And I remember I saw a picture of a child who had been burnt with an iron. I commented it, and I remember her answering that I should be so thankful for the life I had. I have burnt myself many times since by accident, and I would rather be burnt by an iron than growing up with her.

Mikkel:

So she didn’t notice you or maybe ignored you?

Mette:

I don’t know, but I am not sure what those books are worth

Mikkel:

It is some of the most serious kind of neglect if you don’t help a child who is suffering. I guess that years of sexual abuse is pretty massive. You either have to be not very good at noticing what is going on, or you ignore/neglect?

Mette:

She was not very good at sensing what was going on

Mikkel:

So she was busy looking for mistakes of other parents…..

Mette:

Yes but she never did anything wrong

Mikkel:

No I can that there is nothing wrong here, ha ha…..Is that the story of keeping up appearance? Should everything look nice and perfect?

Mette:

Yes but as she said herself on a Youtube Video you never notice the middle class kids.

Mikkel:

And she didn’t notice?

Mette:

No, apparently not

Mikkel:

Have you confronted her later?

Mette:

Yes, she admits that she didn’t notice that I was abused. The problem is that she thinks I am mentally ill because I was abuse, and therefore I do not have reasonable reactions. In that way she makes me a victim the second time around, and that makes me angry. She never considers that I could be angry just because she is an arrogant b….

Mikkel:

Is that how you se her? As an arrogant b…?

Mette:

Yes

Mikkel:

So she is not like this warm family person?

Mette:

Well, maybe with her grandchildren

Mikkel:

Alright, but she didn’t like you?

Mette:

No, I don’t think so

Mikkel:

For some reason

Mette:

And I don’t like her

Mikkel:

Very early or what?

Mette:

Yeah

Mikkel:

Ha ha she talks about that there is violence og obvious neglect like signs or marks. And then she talks about the emotional neglect, which is much more serious, like not noticing, not seeing.. being cold, or not acknowledging that a child is being abused.

Mette:

Well I think that all the moves from Norway to England, back to Norway, then to Denmark and then back to Norway, she never understood how hard that was for me.

Mikkel:

A lot of moving around. So I guess that Kari Killén attachment theory, would imply a solid ground root. But you never had a chance to get yourself rooted, and thereby building a steady identity.

Mette:

No

Mikkel:

And you like Denmark?

Mette:

Yes

Mikkel:

And for some reason that was here you wanted to be, and you went back here when you turned 18.

Mette:

I think the years from you are 8 to you are 12 are very important. So I went back to Norway feeling like a Dane, and I never felt Norwegian again.

Mikkel:

And you speak very well Danish. I was surprised when you contacted me, that a Dane could be the daughter of Kari Killén, but seeing you from the side, there are some facial similarities.

Mette:

I would prefer to look like my father

Mikkel:

You do ha ha…. And your father is Ken Heap, who is English

Mette;

Was

Mikkel:

Did he become a Danish citizen?

Mette:

No

Mikkel:

But he lived here for some years in Denmark?

Mette:

Yes for about his last 20 years. After he divorced my mother he married a Danish woman, and they lived in Lyngby.

Mikkel:

But you lived together for how long?

Mette:

I lefts when I was 18, at that point my parents were still married. They got divorced when my daughter was 2½ years old.

Mikkel:

So in your younger periode, where you were not experiencing that you mother was being the best mother for you, did you know the meaning of her work?

Mette:

No, I realized the meaning of her work, when I was working in the family department, tidying up their mess. Then I had to read he books, and I was very surprised about the power her theories had. I was there from 2002-2003.

Mikkel:

But you didn’t know or understand before that, that your mother actually was that important and powerful a person?

Mette:

No, that’s why I had to read her books

Mikkel:

So you are sitting there with 50 cases, that has not been through any court process, while the kids have been taken, and your are sitting there with piles of papers?

Mette:

Yes, the social workers had just made their own conclusions

Mikkel:

Actually at that time you were on the same side of the table as your mum

Mette:

At t hat point I realized that I was actually tidying up after my mums disciples.

Mikkel:

And at that point you decided that you wouldn’t continue this work?

Mette:

Well, it was a project, and when I had solved what needed to be solved, I left

Mikkel:

I am just thinking now, could you have been the one who made the difference?

Mette:

Thinking back I could, if I had the courage to do so

Mikkel:

So you should have stayed? You should have been reforming?

Mette:

No, I left when the project was done, and I didn’t look back

Mikkel:

In fact you have an upbringing that could have been like one of Kari Killéns cases. Asa social worked you would in that case definitely intervene. No one notices that slip through the system. Nobody noticed you, and then at some point you decided to study law.

Mette:

I went for an interview at the social worker school in Aarhus, and they said it would be an honor to have me there.

Mikkel:

Because of Killén?

Mette:

Yes and Heap, they had both been teaching there

Mikkel:

What age were you

Mette:

About 21

Mikkel:

So actually it wasn’t because you realized that there was something completely wrong here? You were just surprised?

Mette:

Yes it freaked me out

Mikkel:

So it wasn’t something you wanted to be related with?

Mette:

No I didn’t want to walk in their footsteps or being compared to them

Mikkel:

So you decided not to go that way

Mette:

Yes, so I chose to study law, and then I could use my education in the social area.

Mikkel:

You wanted to work in the social area. Were you an idealist? Did you see things that should have been done better?

Mette:

I think I still am. For a while I was working voluntarily with refugee families. Also there I experienced family consultants, who did not understand og try to understand cultural differences in relation to how to raise children.

Mikkel;

Yeah so you decided to become a lawyer, I think it needs a lot of studying

Mette:

It does

Mikkel:

And you had the energy to do all that studying?

Mette:

Yes, but I couldn’t have done it today, that’s for sure

Mikkel:

Is that because you have changed or because the system has changed?

Mette:

I think it was so hard because my daughter was one year when I started, and during the last year at University I had my son, so I had to use all of my time studying while they were sleeping.

Mikkel:

And how was your life at that point? You had a fairly rough upbringing. Being sexually abused for years is rough. If we follow Kari Killéns way of thinking, your upbringing should have an impact. But yet you seemed to live a fairly functional life also with a willpower.

Mette:

Well, I had a depression after a became a mother, and I was in therapy for about 5 years.

Mikkel:

Was your mother supportive at that time?

Mette:

Actually she payed my therapy until my parents got divorced. Then she would only pay half of my therapy if my father payed the other half. I didn’t want to get stuck in the middle, so from thereon I payed myself.

Mikkel:

So you had a fairly good relation at that point?

Mette;

Yes, when they got divorced she became so pathetic, was helpless and enjoyed her grandchildren.

Mikkel:

We are trying to do to interviews, one focusing on Mette´`s upbringing, and another focusing on the theoretical impact seen in relation to this. We have now reached half an hour. Thank you for watching and thank you for the interview about your life.

Mette:

You are welcome.