Om Kari Killén: Første samtale med Mette Heap

Torsdag den 25. juli 2019

Læs tidligere torsdagbreve den

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Kari Killén sommer tema del 3
Første samtale med Mette Heap

English transcript of the entire conversation

Oversættelse af hele samtalen til dansk: 

Mikkel:

Hej, jeg er Mikkel. Jeg sidder her ved siden af ​​Mette. Hun vil præsentere sig om et minut.

Årsagen til, at jeg sidder her, er, at jeg har fået mine børn tvunget til forvaring af myndighederne. Jeg gav ikke mit samtykke på noget tidspunkt. Da jeg blev klar til at få mine børn tilbage, var systemet af en eller anden grund ikke klar til, at det skulle ske.

For cirka et år siden blev jeg aktivist på en meget eksplicit og konstruktiv måde. Det var aldrig på en aggressiv måde. Jeg prøvede at fortælle folk, at vi har et socialt system i Danmark, der ikke fungerer. Jeg prøvede at skabe opmærksomhed omkring ham ved at undersøge området.

Jeg vil også sige her, at normalt når vi taler sammen, gør vi det på dansk. Jeg har dog valgt, at dette interview skal være på engelsk. Dels fordi Mette er halvt engelsk. Men mest fordi dette emne er af international interesse.

Menneskerettighedsdomstolen har taget 26 sager op. De havde allerede 16 sager og har optaget 10 flere. Alle disse sager er fra Norge og om børn, der er taget i pleje.

Dette er uhørt, dette er meget og familier og børn. CBN, en amerikansk radiokanal, har sendt et program om, hvad der sker i Norge.

Norge og Danmark ligner meget deres måde at arbejde på dette område på. Jeg tror, ​​at en meget central årsag hertil er, hvordan Kari Killéns teorier er blevet implementeret i retssystemet. Hun er videnskabsmand inden for børns velfærd eller i det mindste en kvinde, der skrev en masse bøger. Disse bøger skal du læse for at blive socialarbejder i Danmark, Norge og Sverige.

Den specielle ting er, at Kari Killéns teorier er gået ind i aw-systemet. Jeg plejede at sige, at loven ikke dømmer på vegne af den danske lov om social service. Men loven dømmer på vegne af Killéns begrebet dårlig forældre, jeg er ikke sikker på, om hun kom med konceptet, men hun reklamerer bestemt for det.

I min undersøgelse skriver jeg et brev hver torsdag, og jeg har fokuseret på emnet Kari Killén, som jeg valgte at skrive om. Dagen efter blev jeg kontaktet af en kvinde, der havde læst dette brev. Det var dig Mette, og jeg vil gerne have, at du fortæller lidt om grunden til, at du kontaktede mig.

Mette:

Jeg kontaktede dig, fordi din måde at analysere hendes teorier og metoder talte til mig. Jeg kunne se de samme ting, når jeg er ude at arbejde i marken.

Mikkel:

Arbejder du inden for?

Mette:

Det sociale felt

Mikkel:

Arbejder du som en?

Mette:

Juridisk rådgiver og konsulent

Mikkel:

Du er advokat?

Mette:

En advokat, ikke en advokat

Mikkel:

Og du har haft sager om, at børn blev fjernet med magt?

Mette:

I et år var jeg på en familieafdeling i vestjylland, hvor mit job var at rydde op i denne slags sager. Der havde overhovedet ikke været gjort noget lovligt arbejde.

Mikkel:

Du har en anden grund til at vide noget om Kari Killén. Vil du fortælle mig lidt om det?

Mette;

Hun er min mor

Mikkel:

Hun er din mor?

Mette:

Ja

Mikkel:

Okay, du trækker ikke nøjagtigt i den samme retning, som det ser ud til.

Mette:

Nej, jeg trækker i den modsatte retning. Jeg er forvirret. Jeg ser børn, der skal fjernes, der ikke fjernes. Jeg ser børn, som ikke bør tages væk fra deres forældre, der bliver taget væk fra deres forældre. Jeg oplever, at når børnene begynder at tilbringe tid med deres forældre et par timer ca. hver anden uge, er familiekonsulenterne ikke støttende, og der skrives ting, der ikke stemmer.

Mikkel:

Så de vil nedbryde vedhæftningen?

Mette:

Det er mit overordnede indtryk

Mikkel:

Hvorfor tror du, de vil have det?

Mette:

Jeg tror, ​​det handler om penge. Også plejeforældrene taler om dårlige reaktioner, efter at børnene har tilbragt tid med deres biologiske forældre. Dette handler også om penge.

Mikkel:

Så de vil beholde børnene?

Mette:

Ja. De får betalt for at få børnene, så de har ingen interesse i at være en del af at hjælpe børnene med at komme hjem til deres biologiske familie.

Mikkel:

Så det handler om penge?

Mette:

Ja

Mikkel:

Tror du, at Kari Killéns teorier giver en måde at støtte denne ikke-konstruktive måde at minde om børnene i pleje på? Forstår du hvad jeg mener?

Mette:

Det er hvad jeg ser. I en af ​​sine bøger skriver hun om frustrerende de biologiske forældre med vilje for at se, hvordan de håndterer stress. Som om det ikke er nok pres at overholdes og måske miste dit barn.

Mikkel:

Laughing

Mette:

Så vi lægger lidt mere ondt ind med det med vilje, bare for at stresse dem og se, hvordan de reagerer. Det er ondt.

Mikkel:

Mette… du skulle tro, at en kvinde, der er i stand til at fortælle hele Skandinavien, hvad der er passende eller ikke passende for at være en god forælder, selv ville være en god mor med en stærk tilknytning til sine børn. Er det tilfældet?

Mette:

Jeg ved det ikke. Jeg blev faktisk misbrugt i årevis af en mand fra vores gade, ligesom mange andre børn. Jeg blev også maleret af et familiemedlem.

Mikkel:

Mens du voksede op?

Mette:

Ja, mens hun havde travlt med at skrive sine berømte bøger

Mikkel:

Så stor kontrast her mellem hvad du vil sælge dig selv som eller nuværende og hvad der faktisk foregår i hendes liv

Mette:

Helt bestemt

Mikkel:

Vidste du noget om, hvad din mor gjorde på det tidspunkt?

Mette:

Ikke rigtig. Jeg vidste, at hun skrev. Og jeg kan huske, at jeg så et billede af et barn, der var blevet brændt med et strygejern. Jeg kommenterede det, og jeg kan huske hendes svar, at jeg skulle være så taknemmelig for det liv, jeg havde. Jeg har brændt mig mange gange siden ved et uheld, og jeg vil hellere blive brændt af et strygejern end at vokse op med hende.

Mikkel:

Så hun bemærkede dig ikke, eller måske ignorerede du dig?

Mette:

Jeg ved ikke, men jeg er ikke sikker på, hvad disse bøger er værd

Mikkel:

Det er noget af den mest alvorlige form for forsømmelse, hvis du ikke hjælper et barn, der lider. Jeg antager, at mange års seksuelt misbrug er temmelig massivt. Du skal enten ikke være særlig god til at bemærke, hvad der foregår, eller ignorere / forsømme?

Mette:

Hun var ikke særlig god til at sanse, hvad der foregik

Mikkel:

Så hun var travlt med at lede efter fejl fra andre forældre… ..

Mette:

Ja, men hun har aldrig gjort noget forkert

Mikkel:

Nej jeg kan at der ikke er noget galt her, ha ha… ..Er det historien om at holde udseendet? Skal alt se pænt og perfekt ud?

Mette:

Ja, men som hun sagde selv på en Youtube-video, bemærker du aldrig middelklasse-børnene.

Mikkel:

Og hun bemærkede det ikke?

Mette:

Nej, tilsyneladende ikke

Mikkel:

Har du konfronteret hende senere?

Mette:

Ja, hun indrømmer, at hun ikke bemærkede, at jeg blev misbrugt. Problemet er, at hun mener, at jeg er mentalt syg, fordi jeg blev misbrugt, og derfor har jeg ikke rimelige reaktioner. På den måde gør hun mig et offer for anden gang, og det gør mig vred. Hun overvejer aldrig, at jeg kunne være vred, bare fordi hun er en arrogant b….

Mikkel:

Er det sådan, du ser hende? Som en arrogant b…?

Mette:

Ja

Mikkel:

Så hun er ikke som denne varme familie person?

Mette:

Nå, måske med hendes børnebørn

Mikkel:

Okay, men hun kunne ikke lide dig?

Mette:

Nej, det tror jeg ikke

Mikkel:

Af en eller anden grund

Mette:

Og jeg kan ikke lide hende

Mikkel:

Meget tidligt eller hvad?

Mette:

Ja

Mikkel:

Ha ha hun taler om at der er vold og åbenlyse forsømmelse som tegn eller mærker. Og så taler hun om den følelsesmæssige forsømmelse, som er meget mere alvorlig, som at ikke lægge mærke til, ikke se .. at være kold eller ikke at erkende, at et barn bliver misbrugt.

Mette:

Nå, jeg tror, ​​at alle flytningerne fra Norge til England, tilbage til Norge, derefter til Danmark og derefter tilbage til Norge, hun aldrig forstod, hvor svært det var for mig.

Mikkel:

Meget at bevæge sig rundt. Så jeg gætter på, at Kari Killén-tilknytningsteori ville antyde en solid grundrød. Men du har aldrig haft en chance for at få dig selv rodfæstet og derved opbygge en stabil identitet.

Mette:

Ingen

Mikkel:

Og du kan lide Danmark?

Mette:

Ja

Mikkel:

Og af en eller anden grund var det her, du ville være, og du gik tilbage hit, da du fyldte 18.

Mette:

Jeg tror, ​​at årene fra dig er 8 til du er 12 er meget vigtige. Så jeg gik tilbage til Norge og følte mig som en dansker, og jeg følte mig aldrig mere norsk.

Mikkel:

Og du taler meget godt dansk. Jeg blev overrasket, da du kontaktede mig, at en dansker kunne være datter af Kari Killén, men når du ser dig fra siden, er der nogle ansigtsligheder.

Mette:

Jeg foretrækker at ligne min far

Mikkel:

Du gør ha ha…. Og din far er Ken Heap, der er engelsk

Mette;

var

Mikkel:

Blev han dansk statsborger?

Mette:

Ingen

Mikkel:

Men han boede her i nogle år i Danmark?

Mette:

Ja i de sidste 20 år. Efter at han blev skilt fra min mor, giftede han sig med en dansk kvinde, og de boede i Lyngby.

Mikkel:

Men du boede sammen, hvor længe?

Mette:

Jeg håber, da jeg var 18, på det tidspunkt var mine forældre stadig gift. De blev skilt, da min datter var 2½ år gammel.

Mikkel:

Så i din yngre periode, hvor du ikke oplevede, at din mor var den bedste mor for dig, vidste du betydningen af ​​hendes arbejde?

Mette:

Nej, jeg indså betydningen af ​​hendes arbejde, da jeg arbejdede i familieafdelingen og ryddet op i deres rod. Så måtte jeg læse bøgerne, og jeg var meget overrasket over den magt, hendes teorier havde. Jeg var der fra 2002-2003.

Mikkel:

Men du vidste ikke eller forstod før det, at din mor faktisk var så vigtig og magtfuld person?

Mette:

Nej, det var derfor, jeg måtte læse hendes bøger

Mikkel:

Så du sidder der med 50 sager, der ikke har været igennem nogen domstolsproces, mens børnene er blevet taget, og dine sidder der med bunker med papirer?

Mette:

Ja, socialarbejderne havde netop lavet deres egne konklusioner

Mikkel:

På det tidspunkt var du faktisk på samme side af bordet som din mor

Mette:

På dette tidspunkt indså jeg, at jeg faktisk var ved at rydde op efter mine mores disciple.

Mikkel:

Og på det tidspunkt besluttede du, at du ikke ville fortsætte dette arbejde?

Mette:

Det var et projekt, og da jeg havde løst det, der skulle løses, gik jeg tilbage

Mikkel:

Jeg tænker bare nu, kunne du have været den der gjorde forskellen?

Mette:

Når jeg tænker tilbage, kunne jeg, hvis jeg havde modet til det

Mikkel:

Så du skulle have været? Du skulle have reformeret?

Mette:

Nej, jeg forlod, da projektet var færdig, og jeg så ikke tilbage

Mikkel:

Faktisk har du en opdragelse, der kunne have været som en af ​​Kari Killéns sager. Som socialt arbejdede ville du i så fald helt sikkert gribe ind. Ingen lægger mærke til, at det glider gennem systemet. Ingen bemærkede dig, og så besluttede du dig på et tidspunkt at studere jura.

Mette:

Jeg gik til et interview på socialarbejderskolen i Aarhus, og de sagde, det ville være en ære at have mig der.

Mikkel:

På grund af Killén?

Mette:

Ja og Heap, de havde begge undervist der

Mikkel:

Hvilken alder var du

Mette:

Cirka 21

Mikkel:

Så det var faktisk ikke fordi du indså, at der var noget helt galt her? Du blev bare overrasket?

Mette:

Ja, det frækede mig ud

Mikkel:

Så det var ikke noget, du ønskede at være relateret til?

Mette:

Nej, jeg ville ikke gå i deres fodspor eller blive sammenlignet med dem

Mikkel:

Så du besluttede ikke at gå den vej

Mette:

Ja, så jeg valgte at studere jura, og så kunne jeg bruge min uddannelse på det sociale område.

Mikkel:

Du ville arbejde på det sociale område. Var du en idealist? Så du ting, der burde have været gjort bedre?

Mette:

Jeg tror jeg stadig er. I et stykke tid arbejdede jeg frivilligt med flygtningefamilier. Også der oplevede jeg familiekonsulenter, som ikke forstod og forsøgte at forstå kulturelle forskelle i forhold til, hvordan man opdrætter børn.

Mikkel;

Ja, så du besluttede at blive advokat, jeg tror, ​​det har brug for en masse studier

Mette:

Det gør det

Mikkel:

Og du havde energi til at gøre alt det, der studerede?

Mette:

Ja, men jeg kunne ikke have gjort det i dag, det er helt sikkert

Mikkel:

Er det fordi du har ændret, eller fordi systemet har ændret sig?

Mette:

Jeg synes, det var så svært, fordi min datter var et år, da jeg begyndte, og i løbet af det sidste år på universitetet havde jeg min søn, så jeg var nødt til at bruge al min tid på at studere, mens de sov.

Mikkel:

Og hvordan var dit liv på det tidspunkt? Du havde en ret grov opvækst. At være seksuelt misbrugt i årevis er groft. Hvis vi følger Kari Killéns måde at tænke på, bør din opdragelse have indflydelse. Men alligevel syntes du at leve et ret funktionelt liv også med en viljestyrke.

Mette:

Nå, jeg havde en depression efter at jeg blev mor, og jeg var i terapi i cirka 5 år.

Mikkel:

Var din mor støttende på det tidspunkt?

Mette:

Faktisk betalte hun min terapi, indtil mine forældre blev skilt. Så betalte hun kun halvdelen af ​​min terapi, hvis min far betalte den anden halvdel. Jeg ville ikke sidde fast i midten, så derfra betalte jeg mig selv.

Mikkel:

Så du havde et forholdsvis godt forhold på det tidspunkt?

Mette;

Ja, da de blev skilt, blev hun så patetisk, var hjælpeløs og nød sine børnebørn.

Mikkel:

Vi forsøger at gøre til interviews, en med fokus på Mette`s opdragelse og en anden med fokus på den teoretiske virkning set i relation til dette. Vi er nu nået en halv time. Tak for at have set og tak for interviewet om dit liv.

Mette:

Det var så lidt.

About Kari Killén: First conversation with Mette Heap

Thursday letter 25/07/19 

Read previous Thursday letters on

mimeini.blogspot.com

Kari Killén summer theme part 3
First conversation with Mette Heap

Dansk oversættelse af hele samtalen

Transcript of the entire conversation

Mikkel:

Hello, I am Mikkel. I am sitting here next to Mette. She will introduce herself in a minute.

The reason why I am sitting here, is that I have had my children taken into custody forcefully by the authorities. I did not give my consent at any point. When I became ready to have my children back, the system was for some reason not ready for that to happen.

About a year ago, I became an activist in a very explicit and constructive way. It was never in an aggressive way. I tried to tell people, that we have a social system in Denmark that doesn’t work. I tried to create awareness about his by investigating the area.

I will also say here, that normally when we speak together we do that in Danish. However I have chosen for this interview to be in English. Partly because Mette is half English. But mostly because this subject is of international interest.

The Human Rights Court has taken up 26 cases. They already had 16 cases, and have taken up 10 more. All of these cases are from Norway and about children taken into foster care.

This is unheard of, this is a lot og families and children. CBN an American Broadcast Channel, has broadcasted a program about what is happening in Norway.

Norway and Denmark are very similar in the way they work in this area. I think a very central reason for this, is the way Kari Killéns theories have been implemented in the legal system. She is a scientist in the area of child welfare, or at least a woman who wrote a lot of books. These books you have to read, in order to become a social worker in Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

The special thing is that Kari Killéns theories have gone into the aw system. I used to say that the the law does not judge on behalf of the Danish law of Social Service. But the law judges on behalf of Killéns concept of bad parenting, I am not sure if she came up with the concept, but she is certainly advertising it.

In my investigation, I write a letter every Thursday, and I have been focusing on the subject of Kari Killén, which I chose to write about. The day after, I was contacted by a woman who had read this letter. That was you Mette, and I would like you to tell a little about the reason you contacted me.

Mette:

I contacted you because your way of analyzing her theories and methods spoke to me. I could se the same things when I am out working in the field.

Mikkel:

Working in the field of?

Mette:

Well, the social field

Mikkel:

You work as a?

Mette:

Legal advisor and consultant

Mikkel:

You are a lawyer?

Mette:

A lawyer not a barrister

Mikkel:

And you have had cases about children being forcefully removed?

Mette:

Well, for a year I was in a family department in west Jutland, where my job was to tidy up in these kinds of cases. There had been no legal work done at all.

Mikkel:

You have another reason to know something about Kari Killén. Will you tell me a little about that?

Mette;

She is my mother

Mikkel:

She is you mother?

Mette:

Yes

Mikkel:

Alright, you are not exactly pulling in the same direction it seems.

Mette:

No, I am pulling in the opposite direction. I am confused. I se children who should be removed, that are not removed. I se children who should not be taken away from their parents who are taken away from their parents. I experience that when the children start spending time with their parents a couple of hours about every second week, the family consultants are not supportive, and things are written that are not true.

Mikkel:

So they want to break down the attachment?

Mette:

That is my over all impression

Mikkel:

Why do you think they want that?

Mette:

I think it’s all about money. Also the foster parents talk about bad reactions after the children have spent time with their biological parents. This is also about money.

Mikkel:

So they want to keep the children?

Mette:

Yes. They get payed to have the children, so they have no interest in being a part of helping the children to come home to their biological family.

Mikkel:

So it’s about money?

Mette:

Yes

Mikkel:

Do you think that Kari Killéns theories are giving a way of supporting this non constructive way of remining the children in care? Do you understand what I mean?

Mette:

That is what I see. In one of her books she writes about frustrating the biological parents on purpose in order to see how they handle stress. As if it is not enough pressure to be observed and maybe loose your child.

Mikkel:

Laughing

Mette:

So we put just a little more evil into it on purpose, just to stress them and see how they react. That is evil.

Mikkel:

Mette… you s hould think that a woman who is able to tell all of Scandinavia what is appropriate or not appropriate in order to be a good parent, would herself be a good mother with a strong attachment to her children. Is that the case?

Mette:

Well, I don’t know. I was actually molested for years by a man from our street, as were many other children. Also I was molested by a family member.

Mikkel:

While you grew up?

Mette:

Yes while she was busy writing her famous books

Mikkel:

So big contrast here between what you want to sell yourself as or present and what is actually going on in her life

Mette:

Definitely

Mikkel:

Did you know anything about what you mum was doing at that time?

Mette:

Not really. Well I knew she was writing. And I remember I saw a picture of a child who had been burnt with an iron. I commented it, and I remember her answering that I should be so thankful for the life I had. I have burnt myself many times since by accident, and I would rather be burnt by an iron than growing up with her.

Mikkel:

So she didn’t notice you or maybe ignored you?

Mette:

I don’t know, but I am not sure what those books are worth

Mikkel:

It is some of the most serious kind of neglect if you don’t help a child who is suffering. I guess that years of sexual abuse is pretty massive. You either have to be not very good at noticing what is going on, or you ignore/neglect?

Mette:

She was not very good at sensing what was going on

Mikkel:

So she was busy looking for mistakes of other parents…..

Mette:

Yes but she never did anything wrong

Mikkel:

No I can that there is nothing wrong here, ha ha…..Is that the story of keeping up appearance? Should everything look nice and perfect?

Mette:

Yes but as she said herself on a Youtube Video you never notice the middle class kids.

Mikkel:

And she didn’t notice?

Mette:

No, apparently not

Mikkel:

Have you confronted her later?

Mette:

Yes, she admits that she didn’t notice that I was abused. The problem is that she thinks I am mentally ill because I was abuse, and therefore I do not have reasonable reactions. In that way she makes me a victim the second time around, and that makes me angry. She never considers that I could be angry just because she is an arrogant b….

Mikkel:

Is that how you se her? As an arrogant b…?

Mette:

Yes

Mikkel:

So she is not like this warm family person?

Mette:

Well, maybe with her grandchildren

Mikkel:

Alright, but she didn’t like you?

Mette:

No, I don’t think so

Mikkel:

For some reason

Mette:

And I don’t like her

Mikkel:

Very early or what?

Mette:

Yeah

Mikkel:

Ha ha she talks about that there is violence og obvious neglect like signs or marks. And then she talks about the emotional neglect, which is much more serious, like not noticing, not seeing.. being cold, or not acknowledging that a child is being abused.

Mette:

Well I think that all the moves from Norway to England, back to Norway, then to Denmark and then back to Norway, she never understood how hard that was for me.

Mikkel:

A lot of moving around. So I guess that Kari Killén attachment theory, would imply a solid ground root. But you never had a chance to get yourself rooted, and thereby building a steady identity.

Mette:

No

Mikkel:

And you like Denmark?

Mette:

Yes

Mikkel:

And for some reason that was here you wanted to be, and you went back here when you turned 18.

Mette:

I think the years from you are 8 to you are 12 are very important. So I went back to Norway feeling like a Dane, and I never felt Norwegian again.

Mikkel:

And you speak very well Danish. I was surprised when you contacted me, that a Dane could be the daughter of Kari Killén, but seeing you from the side, there are some facial similarities.

Mette:

I would prefer to look like my father

Mikkel:

You do ha ha…. And your father is Ken Heap, who is English

Mette;

Was

Mikkel:

Did he become a Danish citizen?

Mette:

No

Mikkel:

But he lived here for some years in Denmark?

Mette:

Yes for about his last 20 years. After he divorced my mother he married a Danish woman, and they lived in Lyngby.

Mikkel:

But you lived together for how long?

Mette:

I lefts when I was 18, at that point my parents were still married. They got divorced when my daughter was 2½ years old.

Mikkel:

So in your younger periode, where you were not experiencing that you mother was being the best mother for you, did you know the meaning of her work?

Mette:

No, I realized the meaning of her work, when I was working in the family department, tidying up their mess. Then I had to read he books, and I was very surprised about the power her theories had. I was there from 2002-2003.

Mikkel:

But you didn’t know or understand before that, that your mother actually was that important and powerful a person?

Mette:

No, that’s why I had to read her books

Mikkel:

So you are sitting there with 50 cases, that has not been through any court process, while the kids have been taken, and your are sitting there with piles of papers?

Mette:

Yes, the social workers had just made their own conclusions

Mikkel:

Actually at that time you were on the same side of the table as your mum

Mette:

At t hat point I realized that I was actually tidying up after my mums disciples.

Mikkel:

And at that point you decided that you wouldn’t continue this work?

Mette:

Well, it was a project, and when I had solved what needed to be solved, I left

Mikkel:

I am just thinking now, could you have been the one who made the difference?

Mette:

Thinking back I could, if I had the courage to do so

Mikkel:

So you should have stayed? You should have been reforming?

Mette:

No, I left when the project was done, and I didn’t look back

Mikkel:

In fact you have an upbringing that could have been like one of Kari Killéns cases. Asa social worked you would in that case definitely intervene. No one notices that slip through the system. Nobody noticed you, and then at some point you decided to study law.

Mette:

I went for an interview at the social worker school in Aarhus, and they said it would be an honor to have me there.

Mikkel:

Because of Killén?

Mette:

Yes and Heap, they had both been teaching there

Mikkel:

What age were you

Mette:

About 21

Mikkel:

So actually it wasn’t because you realized that there was something completely wrong here? You were just surprised?

Mette:

Yes it freaked me out

Mikkel:

So it wasn’t something you wanted to be related with?

Mette:

No I didn’t want to walk in their footsteps or being compared to them

Mikkel:

So you decided not to go that way

Mette:

Yes, so I chose to study law, and then I could use my education in the social area.

Mikkel:

You wanted to work in the social area. Were you an idealist? Did you see things that should have been done better?

Mette:

I think I still am. For a while I was working voluntarily with refugee families. Also there I experienced family consultants, who did not understand og try to understand cultural differences in relation to how to raise children.

Mikkel;

Yeah so you decided to become a lawyer, I think it needs a lot of studying

Mette:

It does

Mikkel:

And you had the energy to do all that studying?

Mette:

Yes, but I couldn’t have done it today, that’s for sure

Mikkel:

Is that because you have changed or because the system has changed?

Mette:

I think it was so hard because my daughter was one year when I started, and during the last year at University I had my son, so I had to use all of my time studying while they were sleeping.

Mikkel:

And how was your life at that point? You had a fairly rough upbringing. Being sexually abused for years is rough. If we follow Kari Killéns way of thinking, your upbringing should have an impact. But yet you seemed to live a fairly functional life also with a willpower.

Mette:

Well, I had a depression after a became a mother, and I was in therapy for about 5 years.

Mikkel:

Was your mother supportive at that time?

Mette:

Actually she payed my therapy until my parents got divorced. Then she would only pay half of my therapy if my father payed the other half. I didn’t want to get stuck in the middle, so from thereon I payed myself.

Mikkel:

So you had a fairly good relation at that point?

Mette;

Yes, when they got divorced she became so pathetic, was helpless and enjoyed her grandchildren.

Mikkel:

We are trying to do to interviews, one focusing on Mette´`s upbringing, and another focusing on the theoretical impact seen in relation to this. We have now reached half an hour. Thank you for watching and thank you for the interview about your life.

Mette:

You are welcome.

Kari Killén summer theme part 2: Road trip or when theory becomes law

Thursday letter 18/07/19

Read previous Thursday letters on

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Kari Killén summer theme part 2
Road trip or when theory becomes law

This week's Thursday lette describes a journey. The journey began with the Thursday letter I wrote on 1st July about Kari Killén. Kari Killén is the most prominent theorist in the field of child protection in Norway, Denmark, Greenland and apparently also Sweden, although there seems to be less evidence of the practical implementation of her theories in Sweden than in Denmark and Norway. ​

My engagement with Kari Killén's work led me to travel with my girlfriend to the west coast of Jutland to visit a person who has in-depth knowledge of Kari Killén. A woman who contacted me after I posted the abovementioned Thursday letter.​

After the initial contact was made we chatted over messenger and agreed that my girlfriend and I should go to visit her where she lived. We also agreed to make two video-recorded conversations that will be brought out as "Thursday letters" in connection with my Killén theme.​ The illustrations refer to the journey my girlfriend and I made through the countryside by bus and train and the text refers to our journey through written or video recorded material that shed light on Killén's background and theories.​

To gain insight into an author's body of work, background and legacy whilst also trying to understand the private person behind it all in just a few weeks is quite a task. One advantage I had however, was that having been a client in the system for over 7 years, every cell of my body knew how it felt to be objected to these theories and this gave me something to base my research upon. ​

My first research question was whether or not Kari Killén's theories were unique. Whether she had created the ingenious puzzle of attachment theory, neurological science, developmental research, social research and trauma research that her theoretical principles were supposedly built upon.​ 

My conclusion was that they are certainly not. This theoretical spectrum it seems had been picked up by Kari Killén in England in the sixties when she took an education to become a social worker.​

Professor Peter Fonagy is a Hungarian-born British psychoanalyst and clinical psychologist. His theories describe a lot of the things that Killén refers to. I am not saying that Killén explicitly references Peter Fonagy. I am just using it to show that there is a selection of theories developed in England that feature all of the concepts Killén promotes in her books.​ It is clear that there has been an academic environment in the UK which connected attachment therapy with other psychological and neurological research areas and transferred it into a framework for understanding parental abilities.​ The theories that she promotes are not her own, nor does she claim that they are. She claims to have contributed with practical studies that affirm and support the theories (a very questionable claim in fact, but that is another story), but she does not claim to have contributed to the actual theoretical formation itself.​ If Killén's theoretical contribution is not new or groundbreaking then what is it that makes her so significant in the field of child protection? ​ ​

One may suggest that she brought this selection of theories back with her from England to the Nordic countries, formulated this knowledge into a system and then wrote some very thick books which, regardless of their (in my opinion) shallow content, appear convincing, thorough and solid.​ At the same time she teaches and lectures across Scandinavia with her charisma, energy and charm.​

All these things, however, could not be considered the most significant part of her influence. The most important thing she adds is power. ​ Power or "authority" as she names it

She writes: ​ "Intervention - professional and formal authority​

One can hardly speak of treatment in this context without introducing the concepts of intervention and professional and formal authority. Herein lies a realization that it is often necessary to take direct initiative to get into a cooperative position with families in risk of lack of care. The parents are unlikely to be open for help, at least not when the problems are about neglect and abuse. Many want help, but the taboos associated with their problems prevent them from taking the initiative. Many of the parents also use survival strategies to prevent them from receiving help. This applies, for example. denial, trifling, aggression and projection (see neglect 1, chapter 6). Parents usually take inital contact themselves when they are finding that the children are difficult."​

Killén has succeeded in integrating her theories so closely with the authorities that in Denmark and Norway, in practice, the system can sanction on the basis of a risk profile based on Killén's theory.​

This is noticeable. In Denmark and Norway you can intervene in a familie's life with force without being seen to violate the law and without the need for concrete proof of neglect or abuse. Authorities can intervene in a familie's life using a risk profile alone. A risk profile based on an analysis which is based upon Killéns theories and methods.

​Kari Killén manages to join hands with the people in power and she manages to take power into her own hands. 

The power of being able to determine who is good enough to parent their own children and who is not.​ 

What is it in Kari Killéns nature that make this possible? We may learn more about that when we meet the person that I visited in Jutland and whom I am going to feature in the next Thursday letter.

Thursday letter: The Kari Killén summer theme part 1, Kingdom of Killén

Thursday letter 11/07/19

The Kari Killén summer theme part 1

- Kingdom of Killén -

Read previous Thursday letters on

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Introducing the summer theme and the sudden change to English

Since last Thursday's letter I have decided to make a whole summer theme about Kari Killén and I have decided to change the language from Danish to English during this time as I believe this topic is of international interest.

I received some interesting feedback on last week's Thursday letter about Kari Killén.

One persons feedback in particular made a strong impact on me. A person who had a thorough knowledge of Killén's life and approach contacted me last week after she had read the Thursday letter and we then had a message exchange that lasted several days.

Last week's Thursday letter received more visits than any other Thursday letter I've made.

- Kingdom of Killén -

This week's post will try to give the reader an impression of just how influencial Killén's theories have been on all aspects of the child welfare system in the Nordic countries.

Let me start with a statement.

My claim is that when a child is taken into care in Denmark or when legal decisions are made about keeping a child in care, it is not really the written law that is used as a foundation for the decision, it is in reality an assessment of Killén's theories that the decision is based upon.

If this is true, it says something about how influencial Killén's theories are in Denmark.

We are dealing with a theory that in practice has become a law.

I would like to point out some areas within the field of the child welfare system where I see significant influence from Kari Killén's theories.

A few weeks ago, journalist and social worker Puk Sabber, through a Facebook status, led me on the track of two documents that the Danish social authorities had released explaining how to find legal evidence for adoption without consent. I´ve linked the two documents below. They are in Danish.

Adoption without consent - a guidance and inspiration material for case managers

Adoption without consent - nine methods for identifying parenting ability

Both of these documents represent a concept that is almost identical to Killén's theory. Killén is even mentioned as inspiration in one of them.

In my own journey through the system as a parent, nothing has hurt me more than the first comprehensive "parental capacity assessment" that I went through.

It was not the fact that the authorities decided to take my children into care that hurt me, it was the human devaluation that I experienced during the "parental capacity assessment".

I have spent a long time trying to understand and analyze which criteria these assessments are based upon and why they are as they are.

When I encountered Killén's lectures and publications I could see where the entire concept of this "parental capacity assessment" arrived from. Almost every part of it was described in Killén's material.

Last week I cited journalist and social worker, Puk Sabber, who wrote that Killén's book "Child neglect is everyone's responsibility" is the absolute central book in the Danish social worker's education when it comes to the area of children. The same applies in Norway. A quick investigation shows that this seams to be the case for Sweden too. Finland I could imagine would be the same although I have not yet been able to find any evidence for that. At least in Denmark and Norway it is evident that everyone who studies to become a social worker is indoctrinated with Killén's way of thinking.

Phrases that you often hear as a parent from a social worker such as "I can understand that you are sad that you cannot take care of your own child, but she needs circumstances and conditions that you are not able to provide" are almost identical with concrete examples that Killén gives in her books.

"Herning modellen" is a model developed by the Danish city Herning. Many other Danish cities have adopted the model. The model aims to trace early signs of malfunction in families and intervenes against them. The model is clearly based upon Kari Killén's theories.

When Norway is trying to export its child welfare program to other countries quite aggressively, it is basically the concept of implementing Killén's theory into the legal system that they are trying to export.

During this week's Thursday letter, I have not done thorough analyses to prove my claims. I have merely introduced a number of areas where I see the influence of Killén's theories.

I could probably find even more. Killén's theories influence every part of the Danish child welfare system. Naming the Scandinavian child welfare system "Kingdom of Killén" is no exaggeration.

Torsdagsbrev Om Kari Killén

Torsdagsbrev 04/07/19

- Om Kari Killén -

Læs tidligere torsdagsbreve på

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- Om Kari Killén -

 Kari Killén er et navn man før eller siden vil støde på hvis man forsøger at danne sig et billedet af hvad der foregår på anbringelsesområdet i Norge og Danmark. Således skriver Socialrådgiver, journalist og grundlægger af Socialforsvaret Puk Sabber i en kronik i Information:

"... Og hvilke metoder og indsatser bedømmer fagpersonerne forældreevnen ud fra

I svaret på det spørgsmål er fagbogen Omsorgssvigt er alles ansvar, som Kari Killen skrev i 1996, helt central. Den er en bibel på det sociale område i forhold til omsorgssvigtede børn. Samtlige socialrådgiverstuderende bliver indviet i Killens tankegang, der groft sagt går ud på, at man er nødt til at forebygge social arv ved at skille barnet fra dets biologiske ophav."

(Middelklassen definerer, hvem der har ret til at være forældre, Information 22. oktober 2016)

Hvem er hun så denne Kari Killén? Hvad går hendes teori ud på? Hvorfor er hendes tilgang så udbredt? Disse er blot nogle af de spørgsmål jeg har i forhold til fagbogsforfatteren Kari Killén.

At Kari Killén er Norsk finder man hurtigt frem til. At hendes teori benyttes i både den danske og den Norske socialforsorg tager heller ikke så lang tid af finde belæg for. Til gengæld er det underligt at jeg ikke kan finde en egentlig forfatterbiografi, som beskriver hendes opvækst, baggrund, teorier, publikationer, kritik, med mere.

Der er en del dokumenter som omhandler kurser med Kari Killén om omsorgsvigt. Disse dokumenter indeholder ofte en kort beskrivelse af oplægsholderens/forfatterens baggrund for eksempel:

"Kari Killén er socionom med videreuddannelse i børne- og ungdomspsykiatrisk behandling hos Bruno Bettelheim i USA og på Tavistockklinikken i London. Hun har skrevet en række lærebøger og fik i 1988 en doktorgrad for afhandlingen Omsorgssvigt og børnemishandling".

Titlen Socionom i Danmark i hvertilfælde betegner en form for socialrådgiver (bachelor uddannelse fra RUC som ikke længere findes) I Steven Bennetts bog Stolen Childhood finder jeg dog en noget anden beskrivelse. Her citeres Killén for at fortælle at hun er sygeplejerske med speciale i børn (Pediatric nurse) og at hun har 40 års erfaring i sundhedssektoren (Stolen Childhood S. 169)

Nå jeg kunne altså ikke komme særlig dybt ned i hendes personlige baggrund, så jeg besluttede mig at prøve at få lidt indsigt i hendes teoridannelse ved at læse, hvad jeg kunne finde online, men så også ved at se nogle oplæg af hendes som var filmet og lagt tilgængelige online. Først og fremmest dette oplæg af en times varighed.

  Min intention her var at give en nogenlund nøgtern gengivelse af Killéns teori og forståelsesramme, men jeg må dog erkende at dette er vanskeligt. Ved gennemsyn af videoen finder jeg hele hendes tilgang frastødende. Hele den situation som videon afspejler hvor Killén holder oplæg for en forsamling af fagfolk fra det social og pædagogiske område. Den tilsyneladende venlige og engagerede faglighed, de mange pointer hvor publikum medlevende klapper og griner i sin skærende kontrest med det underlæggende budskab om at der er et "os og dem". "Os" som er faglige og som kan se barnets behov og "dem " som er forældre og som ikke har den tilstrækkelige mentaliseringsevner til at kunne se de skader de forvolder på deres egne børn.

På overfladen ser oplægget og damen som holder det meget tilforladelige ud, men det paradigme som etableres er diskriminernde og uvedhæftigt.

Oplaget er ikke lavet som en logisk følgeslutning hvor den ene slutning leder videre til den næste. Det kan snares ses som spredte overvejelser og observationer vedrørende et emne. Jeg vil forsøge at fremdraget nogle centrale pointer sammenhæng ud af de spredte overvejelser i oplægget.

Hovedpointen i oplæget er at der er brug for en fælles tilgang i hele samfundet arbejde med udsatte børn. Socialarbejdere, skoler, sundhedsplejersker, bisidere og socialrådgivere skal have samme teoretsike forståelsesramme i arbejdet med udstte børn og deres forældre.

Der er nu gjort så meget forskning på området at man kan skabe en sådan fælles forståelsesramme som alle arbejder ud fra.

Denne forståelsesramme bør tage udgaspunkt i tilknytningsteorien som blev grundlagt John Bowlby i samarbejde med James Robertson i tresserne.

Killén mener tilknytningsteorien er så velegnet, fordi den samler både neorologisk og psykodonamiske perspektiver med de tilknytningsteoretiske og fordi den er meget velunderbygget forskningsmæssigt.

Hun mener at man igennem mange år har kunne observere og beskrive fysik vold og vandrygt, men at der er en type af psykisk skadelig adfærd som man ikke har været så opmærksom på tidliger og som ikke giver sig udtryk i synlige mærker på kroppen, men som mindst er lige så skadelig. Det handler om det psykiske tilknytningssvigt hvor forældren på grund af manglende mentaliseringsevner ikke formår at møde barnet mentalt på den måde som barnet har behov for.

Killén mener så at man via interview og samværsobservationer kan kortlægge en sådan type af adfærd og når man har kortlagt den kan man sætte ind med forskellige former for støtte til at afhjælpe dette tiknytningsproblem. Hun fremhæves her hvordan dygtige pædagoger og socialarbejder vil kunne hjælpe en sådan mentaliseringsmessigt mindrebemidlet forældre, med at reagere mere hensigtsmessigt på barnets behov. Hun beskriver også situatoner hvor hun ville anbefale en "omsorgsovertagelse" for at afhjælpe problemet.

Det siges ikke eksplicit, men det er en underliggende pointe at man kan tegne en profil over den "utilstrækkelige forældre" ved at se på dennes adfærd sammen med barnet og ved at få et overblik over forældrens historie og se om denne også har være udsat for "løs tilknytning" eller "tilknytningssvigt" i sin opvækst. Hvis denne har det så er det næsten sikkert at denne vil føre den tilknytningssvigtende adfærd videre.

Man kan altså kortlægge denne type af forældreadfærd som næsten sikkert vil fører til alvorlige problemer. Killén mener at man bør bruge den viden til i langt højrer grad kortlægge den type af adfærd og gribe ind overfor den. Enden med støtte til forældrene eller ved at fjerne børn fra forældrene og anbringe dem hos plejefamilier som formår at møde deres behov for tilknytning.

At høre Kari Killén fortælle om disse teorier giver meget genkendelse hos mig som har været udsat for at blive betragtet som en sådan "utilstrækkelig forældre" i det danske socialsystem. Det er tydeligt at de mennesker som har haft med min og min datters sag at gøre har været under indflydelse af Killéns model og tilgang.

Det er også tydeligt at den manglende evidens og den grundlæggende diskrimination, som jeg har oplevet i det danske systems tilgang er direkte korrespondernede med den samme manglende evidens og grundlæggende diskriminerende tilgang i Killéns eget teoretiske materiale.

Nogle af hendes eksempler er bemærkelsesværdigt banale. Hun beskriver for eksempel i flere oplæg hvordan et barn pludseligt kan reagere agressivt i børnehaven uden rimelig årsagssammenhæg i forhold til det som leder op til situatonen. Hun beskriver så at dette må ses som opsparet frustration over den manglende respons fra forældrens side. Den opsparede frustration vækkes til live af en duft eller en lyd eller en anden association i børnehaven, men det hænger i virkeligheden sammen med et problem barnet har i forhold til forældren.

En sådan forståelsesrramme er så forsimplet og tilfældigt at den er åben for et hav af mistolkninger på et helt usagligt grundlag. Samtidig bemærker jeg mig at denne tolkninsramme er særdeles velegned for personlaet i børnehaven til at give forældrene skylden for barnets adfærd i børnehaven.

Dette knytter an til en anden ting som springer mig i øjnene. Alle disse tilknytningsproblemer som observeres hos forældre må da også kunne finde sted hos inkompetente og eller selvotagede plejeforældre eller fagpersonale. Hvorfor beskræfter Killén sig ensidigt med forældresvigt, mens systemsvigt negligeres fuldstændigt?

Et andet dilemma er at man bruge tilknytningsterori til at gøre voldsomt indgreb i barnets tilknytning.

Det er tydigelig at tilknytningsterorien lægger meget vægt på barnets tilknytning til forældrene, men når der tales om "omsorgsorvertagelse" så inddrages der ikke overvejelser vedrørende det forhold at man klipper barnets primære tilknytning over i forventning om at kunne erstatte denne med en bedre tilknytning.

Det er tydeligt at Killén har skabet en teoridannelse som tillægger fagpersonale og plejefamilier stærke og positive egenskaber og som problematisere de biologiske forældres adfærd og tilknytning.

Er det mon dette der gør at socialsytemet og de børneprofessionelle har taget Killéns forståelsesramme til sig i så udpræget grad?

Har Killén haft øje for de den eksisterende konflikt imellem forældre til udsatte børn og socialarbejderen. Har hun kunne se en fordel i at skabe et material som hylder socialarbejderen og problematisere forældren?